Let's Learn About... #21: Cinderella: the Original Dark Tale (Dark Disney #2)

Charlotte: Hello!

Ellie: Hello!

Charlotte: And welcome to a new episode of Let's Learn About... the show where we teach you things about the - pfft, I've lost it again.

Ellie: Noooooo! Every time!

Charlotte: The show where we teach you things you didn't need to know about things you didn't need to know about. But you're glad that you now know.

Ellie: We will edit out the first bit, it's all good, no one needs to know.

Charlotte: Episodes have kind of been in a little bit all over the place recently because I've been rubbish. But we just... I think you've come to expect that by now.

Ellie: It's part of the beauty of it really; is it going to be today? Is it going to be tomorrow? Who knows?!

Charlotte: It's a mystery. So yeah, I hope you enjoyed our 20th Episode. Our special 20th Episode, it was so much fun to record. I feel like we recorded it so long ago now.

Ellie: I think that was the longest recording we had ever done up until that point. It clocked in, certainly on our recording time, about two hours.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: We hope you guys enjoyed it. Let us know if you like the longer form, or if you want us to stick more to sort of our nice capped 20/30 minute mark.

Charlotte: If you were thinking the whole time, "Just shut up, I have things to do," just tell us. That's fine.

Ellie: We won't be sad.

Charlotte: So let's get into this one. What are you going to be teaching us about today?

Ellie: Right. Well, this is one I prepared based off, once again, one of the ones that you did a couple episodes ago. I thought we go back into the world of the Dark Side of Disney.

Charlotte: Yes. Nice.

Ellie: To a particular princess that I, personally... she's not one of my favourites.

Charlotte: Okay.

Ellie: But she's become more of my favourite since reading the original dark version of the story.

Charlotte: Right, interesting.

Ellie: And that is the dark side of Cinderella.

[pre-recorded intro] Before we get into this episode, we want to remind you of a couple of ways you can help support the show. Make sure you follow us on social media to stay up to date; we are @learnaboutpod on Instagram and Twitter.You can also visit our website - learnaboutpod.com - where you'll find notes and resources for all of our episodes and you can sign up to get notified of new and upcoming episodes via email. That's learnaboutpod.com. Enjoy the show! [end pre-recorded intro]

Charlotte: Ooh, okay. There are so many adaptations of Cinderella; like, whenever there's a new adaptation of Cinderella I'm just like "oh my god, another one?" Like, everybody knows who Cinderella is at this point. So this is going to be interesting to actually see the dark side of Cinderella because I think everyone knows the Cinderella story.

Ellie: And if not the Cinderella story then the actual, sort of, the term 'a Cinderella story'.

Charlotte: Yeah. Well, everyone kind of knows the basic Disney-fied Cinderella story.

Ellie: Yeah! Or if not there's like, the... what is it... Hilary Duff? I keep wanting to call her Lizzie McGuire. The Lizzie McGuire version. And there's millions of other, like, movies that are technically classed as 'a Cinderella story' whether or not they've, you know, actually got Cinderella featured in them.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: But, yeah! So that's the basic premise. But this is slightly different.

Charlotte: Cool.

Ellie: And I thought I better share it with you guys. Because who doesn't love a bit of dark side Disney?

Charlotte: We definitely do.

Ellie: Oh, yes, we do. So, turns out that the basic concept of Cinderella - so in general parentheses - a 'Cinderella story' is classed as that of a young protagonist living in forsaken circumstances, that is suddenly, like, remarkably changed into one of good fortune, etc, etc. We all know the gist.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: It's actually been told since the year 7BC!

Charlotte: Wow!

Ellie: All the way in Ancient Greece...

Charlotte: Jeez.

Ellie: ...which was like, what?

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So in the Ancient Greek version, they tell us a story of a Greek courtesan called Rhodopis, who has one of her shoes stolen by an eagle of all things. Which then takes the shoe all the way across the Mediterranean and drops it in the lap of an Egyptian King. The King then takes this dropped shoe as a sign from, like, the literal heavens... and he goes on a quest to find the owner of the shoe. He finds Rhodopis, he marries her and lifts her from, like, a lowly courtesan to Queen of Egypt. However, you can also find stories along the Cinderella vein in Ancient China as well. Which I didn't realise.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: So all the way to the 9th century, there's a Chinese fairy tale, where a young girl is granted a wish from some magic fishbones of all things. And she uses her wish to create a gown and - the usual thing - she uses the gown, she goes to a ball, loses a shoe, but this time the shoe is actually got like this really cool goldfish pattern and if you... they've actually got, like, pictures from the story done at the time, and they're beautiful! I kind of want the shoes. Even though it's, like, a tapestry portrait version, I want the shoes! And the King find this tiny, goldfish scale pattern shoe because back in the day, obviously, Chinese women had their feet bound. So he takes this teeny tiny shoe, and he goes and finds the one person whose teeny tiny feet will fit this teeny tiny shoe. And because he becomes so overwhelmed with her beauty, he convinces her to marry him and becomes queen. And then proceeds to take her evil stepmother and crushes her to death with stones.

Charlotte: Wow!

Ellie: Yeah.

Charlotte: Nice!

Ellie: Yeah. I know! Where was that in the Disney version?

Charlotte: Yeah, come on! We had thorns sticking in the prince's eyes in Rapunzel, we have a woman being beaten by stones in Cinderella. Why aren't these in the Disney films?

Ellie: I know! And that's not even the worst story, I haven't got to the worst one yet. That's just some of them.

Charlotte: Nice!

Ellie: The actual version of the story that Disney decided to take inspiration from is from the French version. And I will not say the name of it because my French is atrocious. But it's, like, 'Cendrillon'. So you can kind of see where the name Cinderella comes from.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Written by Charles Perrault in 1697. And the reason they took that version is because it's the first version to mention the addin- the additions of pumpkins, the fairy godmother, and the actual shoe being made of glass. And also, it's probably... if anyone gets a chance to read the story, because you can actually find the genuine stories online. We'll put links in the... as always, links in the description of this episode, so that you can read it. But it's one of the, genuinely, one of the lighter versions of the story. So I can see why Disney went with it.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And the fact that they didn't just... because you know, sometimes when Disney takes these stories, they come up with, like, the pumpkin or the fairy godmother or stuff like that.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So it's actually one of the few where Disney didn't make up those aspects of the story, it's genuinely taken. But our dear, our lovely dynamic dark duo of the Brothers Grimm made a version of Cinderella called 'Aschenputtel', which literally means 'Cinderella' in German. So, like, okay, fair play!

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: So yeah, the Brothers Grimm, Jacob and Wilhelm, all the way back in the 19th century - I say it all the way back, the 19th century wasn't that long ago - they made their own version, and it's probably one of the darkest versions.

Charlotte: As they usually are in their twisted minds.

Ellie: As they usually are. I would love to have been a fly on the wall when they were writing these fairy tales. Like, if anyone's listened to our 'Rapunzel' episode, you will understand why. Yeah, bit intense this story. So buckle up. Get your popcorn ready! So the story begins in a plague infested village - always a good start for a story.

Charlotte: Yeah, great!

Ellie: And a wealthy gentleman, who is Cinderella's father in this story, is kneeling by the side of his wife's deathbed. She calls for her only daughter - Cinderella - and on her death... and on her deathbed, reminds Cinderella to always remain good and kind. And if she did so, God will protect her.

Charlotte: Right.

Ellie: And then she dies. As, weirdly, most mothers do in fairytales, have you noticed that?

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: Like Snow White? Mother dies.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Cinderella, mother dies. What is it with killing the mothers off?

Charlotte: I don't know.

Ellie: I don't get it.

Charlotte: I think it's why I love Tangled out of all the Disney films. Tangled is so great because she actually keeps both of her parents. Like, she actually gets reunited with both parents, and it's a rarity! Same as, like, Moana. Like, Moana still keeps her whole family. Like, why do mums have to die?

Ellie: Like, even in Frozen both the parents die!

Charlotte: Yeah! Like, keep the parents! Why do you keep killing them? They're important people!

Ellie: In Tangled, Rapunzel technically has more than the usual amount of parents if you class Mother Gothel.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Yay mothers! Yeah, so mom dies.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Dad then goes on to remarry a woman and brings in her and her two daughters into the family.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: They are very beautiful - this stepmother is a very beautiful stepmother, so it's not so much the Ugly Stepmother and Stepsisters, they're actually fair skinned and pretty. But on the flip side of that their hearts are wicked and cruel.

Charlotte: It's kind of like using "ugly" in the sense of like, internally ugly rather than... I feel like most things take it literally and make them full of... they've, like, got boils all over their face and like, they make them, like, extremely, like, facially ugly. But I feel like, maybe by "ugly stepsisters" it's kind of less literal.

Ellie: True. Yeah. That is true. Or the fact that they are so beautiful offsets the fact that... it makes it more extreme, I suppose, in a way?

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And I mean, these... these chicks, they're not... what they do to Cinderella, it's really mean. Like, they steal her fine clothes and her jewels and force her to wear rags, banish her to the kitchen, where she's forced to then sleep next to the hearth to keep warm and wakes up covered in ash.

Charlotte: Jeez.

Ellie: Which is where she gets her name.

Charlotte: Right.

Ellie: And at this point, I'm sort of sitting there going "hang on, if the dad's still alive in this story, why isn't he saying anything?"

Charlotte: Yeah! That's something I've never understood. Like, he must not be a very nice person if he's not standing up for her.

Ellie: No! Exactly! Or he's severely under the thumb of his new wife.

Charlotte: Yeah, I mean, that could potentially be an option, like...

Ellie: True.

Charlotte: ...they are literally abusive then who knows what that relationship is like?

Ellie: Oh my word. But, like, in the Disney version it makes sense because he's dead as well so he can't stand up for her.

Charlotte: Yeah, that's true.

Ellie: So in this one, I was like "hang on a second, this ain't on mate".

Charlotte: Hmm.

Ellie: So for the most part, this story kind of follows the usual Disney one - they make her work hard from dawn till dusk while the sisters don't do anything.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And they mock her and etc, etc. and Cinderella throughout all this stays kind and good. Except in this instance, like, when she's facing them, she's all kind of good and everything, but then when she's alone, she spent all her time by her mother's grace... graveside crying.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Which is quite sad and, like, she's praying and it's like "oh God, I'm being good and kind, you know, save me from these circumstances". So then one day her dad turns around to the three girls and says that he's going to the local fair and wants to know if they would like some gifts.

Charlotte: Right.

Ellie: And the two step daughters are like, yes, the first one wants, like, beautiful dresses and the second one wants, like, pearls and diamonds and yeah, materialistic stuff. And his daughter just turned around and asked him for the first twig to knock his hat off as he's journeying to the fair.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: I was like "What? Okay. I don't know why?"

Charlotte: Yeah, strange request.

Ellie: Bit strange. Like, at least in 'Beauty in the Beast' when her dad is going to the fair she asks for a rose!

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: At least it's pretty, man! But he does so and the first twig to knock his hat off is a hazel twig. So it gives it to his daughter, and she then decides to plant it in her mother's grave.

Charlotte: Right?

Ellie: Waters it with her tears from when she's going down to cry at her gravesite every single day, and over the years it grows into a glowing hazel tree.

Charlotte: Okay.

Ellie: So the chicks got a green thumb.

Charlotte: And magical tears, which seems to be another common thing, like Rapunzel with her magical tears where she just cried on her husband's face and cured his blindness. Like, why a magical tears such a common thing?

Ellie: I know! And why isn't it in the original Cinderella?

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: So we've got a bit of Beauty and the Beast, we've got a bit of Rapunzel.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: Let's see what other fairy tales we've got up in this joint. So then this massive tree is now just on her mother's grave...

Charlotte: Okay.

Ellie: ... so she prays to it, and a white bird starts appearing - so we're getting the magical creature element into it as well. No mice in this instance, I've noticed. No Gus Gus or anything like that...

Charlotte: Oh Gus! I watched the film literally, like, a few days ago - this weekend just gone.

Ellie: What did you think?!

Charlotte: I loved it so much. Gus is just... he just makes that whole film. I... it's definitely one I remember watching as a kid but... oh, he's just amazing.

Ellie: He's so cute.

Charlotte: All of the mice are just the best thing about that film.

Ellie: When they make him... when Cinderella makes him a little t-shirt and it doesn't quite fit over his belly, it's the sweetest thing.

Charlotte: Love him.

Ellie: Awwww! Oh, for anyone who doesn't know what we're on about, Charlotte's actually doing this... you explain it, you explain it.

Charlotte: Yeah! So I didn't watch loads of the Disney films as a kid. Like, they were just loads of the classic Disney films I never watched as kid. No particular reason, I just didn't watch that many films full stop as a kid. So now that Disney+ is a thing, I am going back to the beginning; I have a list of every, like, Disney animated classic - so way back to 'Snow White' which was, like, the 30s, all the way up to... I think the most recent was 'Frozen 2' - and I'm watching every single one of them on Disney+ and reviewing them on the blog. And yeah, I think 'Cinderella' was possibly the last one I just watched. So yeah, I'm getting to the 50s now so I'm getting through them. I've managed to get through all of the 1940s package films which...

Ellie: Oh boy!

Charlotte: ...they get tedious after a little while. But yeah, so this is good timing really that 'Cinderella' is the one that I've literally just watched, like this weekend just gone so, like, a few days ago. I've just watched it.

Ellie: It's like it was fate.

Charlotte: Yeah! Exactly!

Ellie: Totally wasn't because I read your blog and got inspired, no not at all! But no, seriously, it's really good. It's really interesting, especially cuz I was the opposite; I watched all of the Disney films when I was growing up. So it's really interesting seeing it from the perspective of an adult without the nostalgia element.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So if anyone wants to read up on Charlotte's progress, by the time this episode comes out she'll be a little bit further along, so head to her blog. We'll put it in the links and take a read. And we'll definitely have to see which other Dark Disney sides we do alongside that, because trust me when I say it's not just these two, there's a lot of them.

Charlotte: Basically anything that Grimm wrote is gonna... well, gonna be in the name really - pretty grim!

Ellie: Yeah, yeah. But even Hans Christian had a...

Charlotte: Yeah, yeah!

Ellie: ...had his hands... if anyone's had a listen to, like, what happened to the Little Mermaid - oh dear!

Charlotte: Oh God, yeah, I forget that was him.

Ellie: Yeah. Now I keep thinking it's the Brothers Grimm as well. But it's like no, no, not just them. Not just... nope. But yeah, future episode idea.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: We went on a tangent. I've lost where I am. Two seconds.

Charlotte: As usual.

Ellie: As usual, always happens.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: The white bird! That's it.

Charlotte: Yes. Yeah.

Ellie: Yeah, so she starts praying to this tree and a white bird is living in the tree. And the bird listens to Cinderella's wishes and just starts just giving her the things that she wishes for.

Charlotte: Right.

Ellie: Which, you know, I could do with one of those birds, to be honest.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Petrol for my car? "Here you go!" But anyway, one day the King decides to put on a festival and the festival is going to last three days, and he invites all the beautiful maidens in the land to attend so that his son, the Prince can select one of them as their brides. Again, fairly alongside the story.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: The two stepsisters are invited. But when Ashenputtel begged them to let her go as well, the wicked stepmother refuses, obviously, because she's like "no, you've got nothing to wear, what the hell?" So the girl insists because she now has this magical bird that will give her the appropriate clothes to wear, and the stepmother is like "right, what can I do to stop her?" So she grabs a bowl of lentils of all things and throws them into the ashes for her to pick up. So she's like "you can't go until you have picked up all these lentils that are now all over the ashy fireplace." And if she does, she will be allowed to go to the festival. So she gets to work and accompanied by these birds that have now decided to come and help her - so like the mice essentially in in the Disney version, but white birds instead.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: She manages to do it in about two hours. So the stepmom's like "right, okay, I've really got to stop her". So she grabs more lentils and throws them into the fire, and Cinderella does it in about half the time. So the stepmother's just getting really peeved at this point.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: So she just decides "nope, don't care, you're not going", grabs her... grabs Cinderella's Dad and the two stepsisters and just push them out of the house! She's like "right, no, we're going! Leave her!" And again the dad says nothing!

Charlotte: Oh my God!

Ellie: And Cinderella is crying at this point and she's like "but Dad!" and the dad just leaves and so did the stepsisters, and they all go to the fair without Cinderella. So Cinderella goes to her mother's grave side and cries and is like, wishing for beautiful clothes so that she can go to the balls.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So she wishes for a dress in silver and gold, so the magical wish giving birth - essentially the white Genie drops a dress covered in silver and gold at Cinderella's feet, along with some silk shoes. So she goes to the first of the three feasts, dances with the Prince until sunset and she decides sunset is a really good time to leave so that she can go home. The Prince escorts her home, but she suddenly realises that she doesn't really want the Prince knowing where she lives. So to elude him, she jumps into a pigeon coop along the way and hides in the pigeon coop.

Charlotte: Okay...

Ellie: So the father, the stepmother, and the two step daughters suddenly come wandering on by because of course they're heading in the same direction.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And the Prince asks her father to chop down the pigeon coop so that he can go after her, but by the time he finds an axe and actually chops it down, she's disappeared. She's just run off into the night! So...

Charlotte: I don't know why I'm getting images in my head of, like, if they're just walking together and she drops into a pigeon coop. I'm imagining the scene from the Vicar of Dibley when they're walking along and Geraldine just falls into the puddle right up to her head.

Ellie: In my head when I was reading this because I was like "what?!" I'm just imagining she sort of goes "look, what's over there?" and he goes "huh?!" and then by the time he turns around, she's gone.

Charlotte: Yeah, I'm just, I just imagine them walking together and she just drops down into the floor, into a coop.

Ellie: Actually the Vicar of Dibley's now on Netflix, which I was very happy to see, so I've had to start binge watching that one again.

Charlotte: Nice!

Ellie: It holds up. It's a great show.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Yeah, so she escaped and the next day, because of course there's three, three in a row.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Cuz if you gonna party hard, party hard!

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: So the next day she appears again, and she's in like grander apparel - so gold dress, gold shoes - and the Prince is really starting to fall in love with her at this point.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Because in all fairy tales, everyone falls in love in one day or less.

Charlotte: That's all it takes.

Ellie: All it takes. I never understand that. Obviously for movies and stuff it makes sense because like, you got to squish a love story in to like, an hour and a half.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: But come on! Who falls in love in a day?

Charlotte: Yeah, I mean, surely you could even just allude to the fact that some time has passed. But no, it's literally just a day.

Ellie: They did it for Rapunzel.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: How many years passed? She managed to have two twins and grow them up in the time that it took for her to get together with her Mister. Oh dear. But yeah, so he falls... he's really falling in love with her, and again she walks home at sunset and he decides to accompany her, and this time she climbs into a pear tree to escape him.

Charlotte: I'm now thinking of this being like a children's book and it's just like, you know, the kind of books where like, different things just happen along the way but it's like, the same story repeats but then something different happens. So it's just like, the whole story just keeps repeating where they walking and she just find something else to hide it. Like "what she hiding in today?"

Ellie: "Is it the pear tree? No!" Make this a children's book!

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: The darkest children's book of all time. So, yeah, climbs into the pear tree, asked the father to chop down the tree. By this point, her dad is getting like "hang on a second, I recognise this girl". But she escapes and he doesn't have a chance to confirm whether or not it is actually his daughter. So then the third day comes along and the third party happens and this time she is in like, the grandest finery that this magic bird is able to whip... whisk up for her. We have a golden slipper, so no glass slippers, it's like... the most it gets to is gold.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And the Prince at this point is like "right, I'm having her, she is mine!"

Charlotte: "Not hiding this time!"

Ellie: "You're not hiding this time". So he basically gets his servants to cover the staircase leading up to the palace in pitch, which I'm thinking is like some sort of tar? So he basically covers his glorious steps leading up to his palace in black tar. And the party is so awesome this time that Ashenputtel actually forgets what the time is, and she's like "oh crap I've gotta go home!" and she runs down the stairs, and only somehow manages to lose one shoe in the pitch. Which I thought was pretty good going. So yeah, she manages to run away, one of the shoes remains behind as per the usual story. And the Prince manages to rip it out of the black tar, clean it off, and proclaims that he will marry the maiden whose shoe fit... whose foot fits the shoe. Because once again people, there was only one person in the entire kingdom that's gonna have her shoe size.

Charlotte: Yeah. It's like the fingerprints. Everyone has a different shoe size.

Ellie: Yep, yep, exactly. It's one thing I never got with Cinderella - what happens if some other chick down the road has like the same shoe size? She's screwed! How are they gonna know?

Charlotte: It's like in the Ella Enchanted where her sisters have got like shoehorns and they're just trying to shoehorn on the shoe and they're like "it fits!" And their toes are just like, all screwed up at the end. It's like, "see? It does fit!"

Ellie: "It does fit!!" and they're like "well, no it doesn't".

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Well, actually... the next bit of the story might explain that scene from Ella Enchanted.

Charlotte: Nice.

Ellie: So the Prince, the next day, manages to get to Ashenputtel's house, and obviously the stepsisters are there because they've heard what's been going down and they're like, "right, one of us is getting this guy."

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So their mother advises to the eldest stepsister to cut off her toes in order to fit in the shoe.

Charlotte: Right, yeah.

Ellie: So because it makes complete sense, she does!

Charlotte: Yeah. I feel like I've heard that somewhere.

Ellie: Yeah. Oh, yes. So she cuts off her toes, manages to fit it into the shoe, and upon riding home the bird - as in Cinderella's bird friends - turn round and, because apparently now they're magical talking birds as well as wish granting birds, they point out to the Prince on the ride home that there's blood coming out of the shoe. So he realises that it's clearly not the right person because she's chopped her toes off, turns around and goes back to the house. So sister number two has a try, and decides to cut off her heel.

Charlotte: Urgh!

Ellie: Yeah! Which I don't understand how that's possible because there's a lot of bone there.

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: But again, she somehow manages to cut off her heel and the Prince just like "it fits!" They start riding off home and the birds once again are like "mate, there's blood coming out of her shoe! Take a look, man!" And so the Prince is like "oh for goodness sake... all right, okay, back to the house". And by this point the shoes gotta be... you can only imagine like... the shoes gotta be pretty gnarly at this point. That's a load of blood that's been in the shoe. And then he somehow manages to hear that there's a third girl that lives in the house, and the... her dad actually admits at this point "yeah, no, we've got like, a servant girl who lives downstairs, do you mean her?" And the dudes like "well, yeah? She's a girl! Bring her up!"

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: The Dad hasn't actually admitted that this is his daughter is just the servant girl.

Charlotte: What a guy!

Ellie: I know! Father of the Year Award 2020!

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: So yeah, the Prince is like "yeah, bring her up," and she tries on the shoe after washing it off and washing herself off as well because, you know, bit ashy. And she puts on the slipper and he suddenly... upon wearing the shoe the Prince is like "it's you! I recognise you! Because you look so different without the shoe on!" And yeah, so he whisks her off to the palace, they get married and they live happily ever after. However, a few years after the original version of this story came out, The Brothers Grimm decided to add an additional part to the ending.

Charlotte: Okay?!

Ellie: Because it wasn't gruesome enough. They actually write about the wedding in the like, extended coda of the book, and on the wedding day, Cinderella walks down the aisle with her two step sisters as the bridesmaids. And amongst the guests are some of these ever helpful, ever faithful, white birds who, as they are walking up the aisle, fly down and peck out one eye each from each of the bridesmaids. And then upon the end of the ceremony when the bride walks back down the aisle, proceed to peck out the other eye from each bridesmaid. So by the time they leave the church they are both blind from having their eyes pecked out by magical, white, talking, gift giving birds.

Charlotte: Oh my god!

Ellie: The end!!

Charlotte: Why would they even think to add that? I guess they just wanted to get some sort of revenge in?

Ellie: Maybe? Or they just decided it wasn't gruesome enough.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: But yeah, that is the Brothers Grimm version of 'Cinderella' or 'Ashenputtel' as she is otherwise known, and her now de-toed, de-heeled, de-eyed stepsisters.

Charlotte: Wow!

Ellie: You can see why I like the story so much more now that I've heard that version.

Charlotte: Yeah. I've seen a lot recently about... have you seen... oh my god, I forgotten her name... Keira Knightley! And she's been talking about how she doesn't let her daughter watch Disney films about Disney Princesses because she doesn't want her daughter watching things about like, a woman who is saved by a man. It's like she's... I guess I kind of get what she's kind of on about, but it's Disney. Like, no kid has ever watched Disney films and thought, "oh, I'm going to let a man save me and I don't have a life if that doesn't happen", like that doesn't happen. They're kids. But I saw loads of people raging! Like, one of her specific examples was Cinderella. Like she was like "I'll never let her watch Cinderella." But then people were saying "but if you think about the fact that Cinderella is really the story of somebody who - yes, she was saved by a prince, but the prince saved her from an abusive household."

Ellie: Yeah!

Charlotte: She literally grew up from when she was a kid in an abusive family like, even her own dad kind of ignored the fact that she exists. And she managed to like, actually get her way out of an abusive family, and even if like, a prince did help her do that, like, surely it should be a good kind of lesson that she did. She managed to like escape an actual abusive family!

Ellie: Exactly! It's like... oh, dear. Oh, what did you want her to stay?

Charlotte: Yeah!

Ellie: "Yay! She wasn't saved by a man but she wasn't saved at all?"!

Charlotte: She's going to be abused for the rest of her life?

Ellie: Oh dear. I understand, like... because growing up watching the movies, especially the older ones, there is a lot of that; like, Snow White - saved by a dude. Cinderella - yes, saved by a dude. Aurora - saved by a dude.

Charlotte: Yeah, but when you think of the fact that they were made anytime between like, the 1930s and the 1950s? Like...

Ellie: It was a different world.

Charlotte: That's just how it was! Like, it's why Disney are now making films like Moana and Princess and the Frog and stuff where you do get like... you get people where like, the Prince is just kind of like a sidekick. It's like with Snow White, it makes me laugh because the Prince literally just hears her sing and then that's the way he falls in love with her. Literally just falls in love with her voice.

Ellie: Yep.

Charlotte: Never mind the fact that Snow White is actually like 12 which makes it a little bit creepier.

Ellie: Yeah...

Charlotte: I feel like that could be another dark story we have to explore is Snow White because I think that one gets pretty dark as well.

Ellie: Oh, yeah!

Charlotte: Even just thinking that Snow White is a literal child, like...

Ellie: Yeah, especially... yeah, no, I did remember reading some of the things that happens in the... I think, again, it's the Grimm Brothers - their version of Snow White.

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: And what happens to the Wicked Queen at the end is like "oh my word!"

Charlotte: Maybe that should be another one for a future episode.

Ellie: Most definitely.

Charlotte: We want to get very dark.

Ellie: Very, very dark. And I think there's definitely going to have to be a Little Mermaid one because...

Charlotte: Yes!

Ellie: ...Hans Christian Andersen basically went "right, you want messed up situations? I'm going to give you messed up situations!"

Charlotte: Yes.

Ellie: But yeah, if any of you guys want to hear more Dark Disney... I would love to say Disney+, please sponsor us, but I don't know if you'd want to.

Charlotte: But yeah, if you've got a favourite, like, famous Disney Princess or just any kind of famous stories or anything that you only know they're really light Disney-fied versions of them, then let us know because it'd be really cool for us to take that, research it, and try and find the original stories about it. You know, if you want your favourite stories ruined then let us know! We would love to do that.

Ellie: Hell yeah, I'm down for that! Ruin your childhood, why not?

Charlotte: Yeah.

Ellie: Why not?

Charlotte: Yeah. If you haven't listened to the Rapunzel one, then - I can't remember what episode it was, but it was a few episodes ago - then go and listen to that; I talked about the dark story of Rapunzel and we've kind of talked a little bit about it in this one with like, the prince getting his eyes beaten out by thorns. And we...

Ellie: Spoiler alert!

Charlotte: Yeah, but yeah, if you want another kind of dark Disney story, then go and listen to the Rapunzel episode. But yeah, we... as usual, the notes and things will be on the website if you want to read more, and we will see you next week - hopefully - for another episode!

Ellie: We say hopefully, but we have continued to come back so I'm going to take a positive approach to this dark tale and gonna say - definitely, we will definitely be back next week.

Charlotte: We will!

Ellie: See you next week.

Charlotte: Bye!

Ellie: Bye!